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Re: Tweaking Vader
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fishfleas2000
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Nov 16 07 3:19 PM
Scott,
Thanks for giving more of a strategic response. Even on your first post you didn't go into details. You just basically stated that they work against each other. I see where you are coming from on these points, but I do have some counters to those.
first ATE:
I will give you the whole ATE doesn't scare everybody now. I can't say that it still scares every opponent as that is a personal view on the card. However, the card can and does still win the game for Vader. This is also the reason the deck is so stinking tricky, strategic, and mind bending... The path to successfully playing ATE is not an "easy" one, and even then yes it CAN fail. I will even give you the fact that most players can't get the path to victory to work for them, but alot of that is they don't understand when to play things and if to play things. Vader is just one tricky bugger.
Second DD to minors:
Alright, you've stated that there is 24 DD to minors. Yeah that could be overkill, but only 3 cards worth of that is to minors only. The other cards still function properly against the majors, just as they did before. If you are looking strictly at total DD to the minors then I can conced this point that 24 is overkill... and there is only need for 2 at most of the DD of 6 cards. However, there is more to deck design than just power and numbers. Distribution as it relates to efficiency of drawing plays one of the biggest parts in good deck design. Vader NEEDS to get rid of the minors, and therefor the extra slot for the extra DD is justified. I will explain the reason why he needs to get rid of the Minors in a minute. I however, don't see the extra card as working AGAINST the others, but as just excess that is the result of an attempt to bringing more consistancy to the deck.
Third DSD:
I am following you on how this card works against the other cards, but this is one of the major cards I was referring to as needing a power upgrade. If you up it's power a bit, then all of a sudden it Doesn't work against the other cards. Why is that then? It's not flawed design, it is a flawed power level. Vader needed some healing, but it was poorly implemented. So I guess I can half give you that point, and you have even agreed that the card would be better if it was a bit more powerful.
Fourth Killing the Minors:
Typically strategy tends to tell us not to kill all the minors off for an opponent, as it allows them to heal. However, if you would poll most good players; I truly think you would find that they only look to heal in dire circumstance or when they have a ton of room between the opponent and them. I will concede that healing isn't good if you are planning on sitting back and trying to DD them to death, but that really isn't what you should be trying to do when you have killed off their minors. When you are approaching the death of their last minor, then you should be moving in for the attack on the major. Now assuming that you are close to the opponent then the death of the minors has created quite the dead weight in your hand. You can't afford to heal, because you need to draw to get to those movement cards and defense cards. Vader then continues to attack and draw each turn. eventually you will run out of defense or health.
Fifth YSANC:
Yes this card hoses the specials, especially the movement cards that create headaches for vader.
Overall, do I think vader then is a bad design, no I think his design is well thought out, and I think it's an intriguing deck. I have more issues with Luke's Design than Vader's. Vader though is too weak in my opinion. I am a strong supporter that DSD needs to be upped, and that change would then make the deck more competitive. The only concern I would have with that is that it becomes too powerful in 2v2. 2v2 was one of the main play styles that Hasbro designed into this game. So it really can't be ignored, and I think that Hasbro overall did a great job making decks stronger in 2v2 than 1v1 and vice versa.
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