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Re: Tweaking Vader
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Darth Trumpetus
#1
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Dark Lord of the Sith
Posts
: 2266
Nov 13 07 12:23 PM
QUOTE
(volleyballgy @ November 13, 2007 01:56 am)
I just disagree that weak = flawed.
Nobody has made this claim...so I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with.
My claim is that the design is flawed. The a priori argument doesn't hold up, because it assumes that I (or someone) is making the above claim...nobody is. Choke doesn't work well with Wrath, and those two cards further don't work well with Dark Side Drain as an A3. Also, if your path is attrition, or direct damage or whatever, you need cards that are directly related to giving Vader added staying power. Vader really doesn't have *any* cards (aside from a DSD that everyone is agreeing is ineffective at best), that give him more staying power directly (staying power is defined as HP, Defense and Healing).
He does have a few rather ineffective ways at gaining "indirect" staying power. Choke and Wrath take out minors...so depending on who his opponent is, this *can* be a way to get some indirect staying power in that it might take out half of a deck's offensive power (in decks like Han and Jango). He also has a discarding card, that depending on his opponent may limit his opponent's ability to get adjacent and/or deal damage by pulling special cards. Outside of those ineffective cards, he's left with only 20HP and one 3-defend and one 4-defend. That's about the worst staying power stats of any character (maybe Boba's is worse?). If you want to build a deck that has a path to victory that is attrition with a prolonged game of DD, why in the world would you choose a red deck with no defense, and then not support the deck with some defense, card draws, better healing or better discarding?
I feel the design would be better fleshed out with one or more of the following: movement, card draws (more than just "draw a card", I'm thinking Gain Power), better discarding (like random discards or Let Go of Your Hatred style cards), or added power defense or a different basic set (Blue? Green? Custom color?). What I am NOT arguing here is that doing this will make a stronger deck (and therefore it makes it better). I am arguing that the design will be more solid, more playable and will give Vader more options in a duel to win. A BYPRODUCT of doing this may in fact raise his win/loss record, and it may even make it "less weak". But I don't even care about that so much as I care about how the deck works and how it plays. You can make the DD cards stronger or weaker to tweak the deck to get the right strength or weakness that you want. But, you can't just keep the deck "as is", because I absolutely think it is broken. I will concede that it is less broken in 2 vs 2 games where he can utilize all his Chokes and Wraths against more minors, and Fish brings up a point that ATE becomes more useful as well. But I refuse to concede that Vader's deck works and is an effective design in 1 vs 1 games.
It may be true that the designers intended the game to work better in 2vs2...we'll never really know. If that IS true, then it just lends more credibility to the argument that Vader's deck is flawed in 1vs1, because the designers would have made it with 2vs2 in mind...in which case, it wouldn't function as well in 1vs1. I have yet to see a convincing argument that says, "The design is solid, and here's why...these cards do this and this and this, and the card work together well because of X,Y,Z". I feel, I can definitely say the opposite...and I have said it...multiple times now.
Darth Trumpetus...trumpeter of fury.
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