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Re: Tweaking Vader
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volleyballgy
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One With The Force
Posts
: 1254
Nov 13 07 12:56 AM
QUOTE
(Roman Farraday @ November 12, 2007 06:35 pm)
Here are a few more facts:
1) Vader is the most discussed, dissected deck in the game. It's the only deck I can think of that had printed tweaks made for it. Obviously, whether they are right or wrong, many ED players have a problem with the deck.
2) Vader has a poor win-loss record. He is clearly a weak deck.
3) There are weaker decks like Jango and arguably Han. How come those decks don't get so much attention? (Luke is also arguably weaker, but he actually gets a lot of attention).
Venturing forth from fact, for Han I think it's because he has a chance to win any game if he "does his thing," (same true for Luke) and because we're ok with having him be weaker deck (not so much for Luke). For Jango, I think it's because nobody cares that he's weak. With Vader, people do care, hence the discussions and the tweaks.
I put forth my own point of view that to me, playing Vader isn't fun, and part of that is because he's weak. For me, a lot changed the first time I played Star Wars Minis. I was never satisfied with Vader's deck, but playing that game for the first time showed me exactly what was wrong with it. We have Han and Luke and some guys, and suddenly Vader runs up to them and it's like "Oh #%@! It's Vader! Get out of here!" And I'm thinking, now
this
is what Vader should be: A terror on the battlefield. A guy you don't want standing next to you. Not some weak guy who cowers in a corner.
1) Ok.... I'm honestly not well-versed enough with tweaks (being a die-hard purist
) to contradict this, but since it doesn't get in the way of what I'm trying to say, fine.
2) Yep. I agree.
3) I would venture to guess you're right about this one, too. Vader can be extremely frustrating to play; one guy I played had his first Duel as Yoda-Vader and he never wanted to play again because it was so frustrating. That happens with a character who is completely reliant on the die to move. If it takes a more powerful Vader to make him fun for you, by all means tweak away. I just disagree that weak = flawed.
QUOTE
(hags888 @ November 12, 2007 11:01 pm)
Choke + Wrath + Dark Side Drain is a poor combination of cards and they not only work against each other, they don't support any kind of PtV.
I disagree completely; I think all three of these support the attrition PtV.
1) 3x Choke might mean one ends up useless, but it also means he gets them more quickly, which is a must. Vader can't afford to be taking shots from the minor(s) before closing with the major.
2) Wrath is almost the very definition of an "attrition" card...
3) Though it would be much more effective as an A4, DSD still provides some extra attacking power with the added benefit of potential healing, perhaps the one or two HP he needs to survive to attack one last turn.
In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo-clock.
- Orson Welles
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