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Well, that's certainly not Hasbro's version of Vader; you'll find no argument from me about that. Considering I don't see the armored Darth Vader do anything "formidable," it doesn't bother me that he is in a lower tier. Personally, I think it's presumptive of you guys to call it a design "flaw" just because he isn't at the power you want him to be. It's also worth pointing out that Vader is a top-tier 2v2 deck... 


Tim, I respect you holding the sole position of arguing in Vader's behalf and want to make it clear that without your responses, there wouldn't be much of an argument going on here, and it's an argument I'm enjoying. That stated, I'm not sure why you're taking shots at people, or even who "you guys" is. I don't see the word "flaw" anywhere on this thread.

If there is a "flaw" that "us guys" agree on, it's that his cards, specifically Choke, Wrath and Dark Side Drain (8 of 12 cards), work against each other. No other deck has 8 cards that are so redundant.

I completely agree that Vader does very little in Eps 4-6. I've heard the argument before and it's pretty much a fact, I can't argue with it from a film standpoint.

Here are a few more facts:

1) Vader is the most discussed, dissected deck in the game. It's the only deck I can think of that had printed tweaks made for it. Obviously, whether they are right or wrong, many ED players have a problem with the deck.

2) Vader has a poor win-loss record. He is clearly a weak deck.

3) There are weaker decks like Jango and arguably Han. How come those decks don't get so much attention? (Luke is also arguably weaker, but he actually gets a lot of attention).

Venturing forth from fact, for Han I think it's because he has a chance to win any game if he "does his thing," (same true for Luke) and because we're ok with having him be weaker deck (not so much for Luke). For Jango, I think it's because nobody cares that he's weak. With Vader, people do care, hence the discussions and the tweaks.

I put forth my own point of view that to me, playing Vader isn't fun, and part of that is because he's weak. For me, a lot changed the first time I played Star Wars Minis. I was never satisfied with Vader's deck, but playing that game for the first time showed me exactly what was wrong with it. We have Han and Luke and some guys, and suddenly Vader runs up to them and it's like "Oh #%@! It's Vader! Get out of here!" And I'm thinking, now this is what Vader should be: A terror on the battlefield. A guy you don't want standing next to you. Not some weak guy who cowers in a corner.

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Considering that Obi-wan's deck wins over 75% of the time, clearly Vader isn't the only character that doesn't win 33% of his Duels against each opponent. In fact, how many do you think win 1/3 of their matchups against Obi? Emp? Is Mace's deck "broken" because he has virtually no chance against the Emperor? 


Well, that's a bit of a leap from Scott's argument. I'll argue that while Mace might be weak vs Emperor, he has a much better chance of winning that matchup than Vader does vs Obi-Wan. I don't think every character should be even, I think it's great that characters match up against some characters better than others. That said, Vader being basically hopeless vs Obi doesn't sit well with me.

"There is a sense of satisfaction in looking at your men all ready for the fray" -- W. Somerset Maugham

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